Track 4: Talking to Your Kids About Divorce with Kate Anthony
Kate Anthony joins me for a conversation about separation and divorce, specifically how to talk to your kids about it. I know Kate and her work because she’s been my client since 2018! I’ve been editing her podcast since then and have firsthand knowledge of her work and how she does it. I think you’re really going to enjoy this week’s episode.
Kate is the author of The D Word: Making the Ultimate Decision About Your Marriage, which, as of this episode's airing, is now also available in audiobook form! Kate is the host of the critically acclaimed and New York Times-recommended podcast The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast and creator of the groundbreaking online coaching program Should I Stay or Should I Go? which helps women make the most difficult decisions of their lives.
Kate shares:
The answer to the question, “Should you stay in your marriage for your kids?”
How to talk to your child/children about divorce, including getting on the same page about your why (why you’re getting a divorce) and having some plans/details figured out before having the conversation
Therapy and support for children of divorce
How do you respond if your child asks, "Are you and dad getting divorced?” when you actually are not?
Episode references:
Kate Anthony
Kate’s book
Generational Shifts on Instagram
Subscribe to Generational Shifts Email Notifications
Christina McGhee
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Darlene: You're listening to Generational Shifts, the podcast that explores the evolving landscape of parenting, health and wellness, and personal development.
[00:00:12] This season features conversations from today's leading professionals to help you gain new insight and tools for parenting in the 21st century. Now let's jump into today's topic and uncover the tools you need for navigating parenthood in today's ever changing world. Hello everyone, welcome back to another Episode of generational shifts.
[00:00:37] I'm your host, Darlene. And I'm so glad that you are here back with me again for another episode. This week's episode is on the topic of divorce. Now, whether that's something on the table for you and your spouse, or not even one iota On the table, I think you'll find this episode insightful, but before we dive into this week's [00:01:00] episode, last time I mentioned I'd be having my first podcast giveaway in this episode, and that's my drum roll, this week's podcast giveaway.
[00:01:12] is for two free audio books. So if you are someone who likes to listen to podcasts, then hopefully that translates to reading audio books. So the winner of this giveaway, I'm going to be selecting one random winner. They will get. Two copies or two free audio books. One will be a copy of this week's guest's book.
[00:01:36] One will be a copy of this week's guest book, the D word, making the ultimate decision about your marriage. And the second will be a book of your choosing. Any title that you want to enter this special podcast giveaway. You can do it one of two ways, either follow Jen shifts pod on Instagram. So that's G E N [00:02:00] S H I F T S pod.
[00:02:05] On Instagram or head on over to dvpodcasts. com slash subscribe and subscribe to the podcast notifications via email and I will say I do not sell or utilize the email what you're opting into is just being notified when new episodes air and you can unsubscribe at any time. The giveaway runs from March 22nd, 2024 through April 11th, 2024.
[00:02:34] So anyone who either follows Jen shifts pod on Instagram or hops on the email notification list between March 22nd. Through April 11th, 2024, up until 1159 PM. Eastern standard time will be entered into the giveaway. Then I'll be selecting one name at random using random. com. All you'll need in order [00:03:00] to collect the prize is a valid email address, because that's how I'll send you the two free audio books.
[00:03:06] If you have any questions about this giveaway, would like additional rules or information, you can reach me on the contact page over at dvpodcast. com. Just click contact and you can send me an email from there. I hope you enjoyed this giveaway. Good luck and have fun. Let's jump into this week's topic.
[00:03:33] When I was very young, my parents separated. My earliest childhood memory was of my mom dropping my brothers and myself off at my father's for a visit. While I was too young to remember much about the visit, because I was only three, the fact that this was one of my earliest childhood memories signifies to me how impactful their separation was in my life as a child, then as an adolescent, and [00:04:00] maybe even now as an adult.
[00:04:02] Divorce can have a profound effect on children. But there are ways in which you can talk to you and support your kids when it comes to divorce, if you and your spouse are indeed separating. You can do this in ways in which this week's guest says, won't screw up your kids. Today on the podcast, Kate Anthony joins me for a conversation about separation and divorce.
[00:04:27] Specifically how to talk to your kids about it. Now, I know of Kate and her work because she's been my client since 2018. Another client of mine joins me on the podcast. Shocker! I've been editing Kate's podcast since 2018. And so I have firsthand knowledge of the work she does with her clients and how she does it.
[00:04:50] And I really think you're going to enjoy it. This conversation in this week's episode, Kate is the author of the D word making the ultimate [00:05:00] decision about your marriage, which as of this episode, airing is now available in audio book form. Kate is also the host of the critically acclaimed and New York times recommended podcast, the divorce survival guide.
[00:05:14] And, she's the creator of the groundbreaking online coaching program, Should I Stay or Should I Go?, which helps women make the most difficult decision of their lives. So I don't know what the conversation between my mother and brothers was like about my parents separation, or even what my mother and father may have told me at just three years old.
[00:05:36] If you're like me, you don't have first hand experience or knowledge. Or, perhaps your experience with a parent's divorce was less than stellar. Kate shares what she knows about talking to kids about divorce. And if you think this episode doesn't really apply to you, I still do encourage you to listen as it [00:06:00] could be a resource now or in the future for a friend or family member or someone in your life who might need it.
[00:06:07] Might need some information if they decide that divorce is on the table for them.
[00:06:23] Kate, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you here with me today.
[00:06:30] Kate: I am so happy to be here with you, Darlene. It's been years and years of you working on my show. And so to be able to be on your show is just an honor and a delight.
[00:06:41] Darlene: I hear you in your podcast and your work all the time, but it's fun now to be in the seat where I get to ask you some of those questions where I'm like, huh, how would Kate answer this question?
[00:06:52] So this is going to be an interesting and fun time. Good. Awesome. I'm excited. So I actually invited you on [00:07:00] to talk about how to talk to kids about divorce. And in your book, you have a chapter devoted to how to not screw up your kids. I sure do. You do. And for anybody listening, your book is actually called the D word making the ultimate decision about your marriage.
[00:07:19] And that'll be by the time this airs, it'll be available everywhere. Today, we're actually going to explore a lot of the topics in that chapter, and I'm excited to jump in.
[00:07:29] Kate: Yay! Yeah, it's a big one. I think for parents who are considering divorce, the biggest concern is not screwing up their kids.
[00:07:38] Darlene: What's interesting is, I think we both grew up in the 70s and 80s
[00:07:43] Darlene: And a lot of what this podcast kind of explores is the generational shifting of perspectives and the research, what informs us now. Growing up when I did. We've often heard people say, Oh, we stayed together for the kids.
[00:07:58] So I know [00:08:00] you have a specific thought on that. So I'd love for you to answer this just to get started. And then we'll jump into talking to kids about divorce, but how do you answer? Should you stay in your marriage for your kids?
[00:08:12] Kate: The short answer is no, absolutely not. And, to your point, Darlene, those of us from Gen X who grew up in the seventies and eighties, who experienced parents who stayed together for their children, they can attest to how miserable it made their childhoods.
[00:08:34] If there was like a lot of toxicity, or even if there was just misery I have friends now, my parents didn't do that. That's another story. But, I have friends who literally would get on their knees and beg God to make their parents get divorced because living in the chaos.
[00:08:52] Of toxicity, upheaval, abuse, whatever it was miserable. [00:09:00] I have other friends that I know whose parents really should never have stayed together. And it was like, walking into their house, you could feel the energy. It was like walking into a ghost town where everybody was just disconnected and unhappy.
[00:09:16] People didn't talk, right? That's not an environment that you want kids to be in. Grow up in. And if you were someone who was raised in that, you really get that, get why that's not okay. On the flip side of that, my parents did get divorced. I was very young when they split up and I was raised with them screaming and fighting and putting me physically in the middle of, I, some of my earliest memories are of them Screaming, I grew up in Manhattan and so we had one of those classic apartments that had a really long, narrow hallway and I have some of my earliest memories are of sitting on the floor [00:10:00] between the two of them on either side of this long, narrow hallway screaming over my head.
[00:10:05] Oh, wow. And then, my mom putting notes in my little suitcase asking my, ask your dad for support because I need the money or whatever. To her credit it's not like she wanted to do that, but like everything else she was trying wasn't working. So there are so many ways that we screw up our kids that have nothing to do with whether we stay in a marriage or not.
[00:10:26] And really, the most important thing is. To keep our kids out of toxicity, whether that's in a marital home or two divorced homes, it's not divorce that screws up kids. It's toxicity. It's abuse. It's being a witness to the horrors of an unhappy marriage again, whether that's volatility or just that silence, right?
[00:10:57] That we all know something's wrong, but nobody's naming it. [00:11:00] And that's gaslighting. And, when you say to your parents, there's something wrong and they say no, mommy and daddy love each other very much. And darn they really don't. Then you are raised with an idea of what love is.
[00:11:17] That is not love. It's all about what we're modeling to them in
[00:11:23] Darlene: every way.
[00:11:24] Kate: As I, I always say as well, that even if there are a lot of people that are like that's all very well and good. I know that I can provide a healthy, happy home for my kids, but I don't know what's going to happen in the other parents home.
[00:11:41] And I stay so that I can control so that I can protect them. So that I can mitigate the rage, the anger, whatever else. And unfortunately, what you're doing in those cases is that you're keeping them in at 100 percent of the time. [00:12:00] And the research does show that even if they have a safe place to land only 50 percent of the time.
[00:12:07] 50 percent of the time is enough. It gives them a place for their central nervous system to decompress. They're out of the trauma and it gives them perspective. I call it giving your kids the gift of perspective. They can start to learn, Oh, this is what love and safety feels like. That's like the greatest gift you can ever give them.
[00:12:32] Darlene: Yes. Yes. And then they're just away from that environment. Like you said, even just 50 percent of the time. So in your book, you actually quote divorce parenting expert, Christina McGee's research, where it shows that 95 percent of surveyed children reported feeling like their parents gave them little to no information about their separation or divorce.
[00:12:57] You mentioned a little bit about your parents [00:13:00] and their divorce story. My parents separated when I was three, so I have no recollection of any conversation that our parents might have had with myself or my brothers. I recall visiting him from time to time when I was very young. Those visits didn't last long.
[00:13:16] He had a mental illness, so we didn't My mom, didn't feel safe having us visit with him, but she was always upfront about the split. But I wanted to talk specifically about how to share that you were going to have. So we'll start there. There's a bunch of other questions, but what's the best way parents should talk to kids about divorce?
[00:13:39] So there's a couple, they're saying, okay, They've decided that they are getting a divorce and they now are talking about, okay, how are we going to share this with the kids? So some tips, some thoughts, how to prepare, how to have the actual conversation. I will leave the mic open now for you to [00:14:00] reply.
[00:14:01] Kate: The main thing is that if at all possible, you want to have this conversation together.
[00:14:07] It's the Most important thing, if at all possible. And there's a lot to do to prepare for the conversation. As you said, there's this idea that, so 95 percent of kids reported feeling like their parents gave them little to no information. Some of that is because, again, it's not developmentally appropriate to share a lot of information.
[00:14:29] Details. And when you're coming up with a somewhat neutral narrative for your kids, it can not make sense to them, right? Their prefrontal cortexes are not developed, so they don't really understand a lot of deeper nuance and concepts about these things. We can never say to a kid your dad's a lying cheat, so we've decided to get divorced, right?
[00:14:57] That is the worst thing that you can do [00:15:00] to a child. And so coming up with, okay, this is why we're getting divorced, let's say, but you and I have to now get on the same page about what the story is so that neither one of us throws the other parent under the bus. Now we're going to come together. Ideally, right?
[00:15:15] This isn't an ideal scenario. We're going to come together and create a narrative that doesn't make anyone the bad guy. And for children, young children in particular, they often need a good guy and a bad guy to understand what's going on. What's happening? This idea that there's no bad guy is then if there's no bad guy, and if nobody did anything wrong, then let's not do this.
[00:15:38] Yeah so it's a really, I'm like, I don't want to sugarcoat or step over how difficult a line that is to walk. So it's hard. It's also necessary. And by the way, as kids get older,
[00:15:54] Kate: you can have, More detailed conversation where they start to see [00:16:00] things, right? I know for my, in my case, my son, I really tried hard not to say anything negative about his dad and I were friends and we managed to do all the things to make sure that, our son was the center at the center of everything that we did.
[00:16:15] But over time My son would notice things and start asking me questions. And when he started asking these questions, so if your kids ask you directly, hey, mom, did dad cheat on you? Is that why you got divorced? You don't want to lie to them. You're not going to gaslight them. You're going to say to them, that was one of the issues in our marriage.
[00:16:37] And I'm sorry that you came upon that information or whatever it is, but yeah, that was one of the issues that we had. So it's not yeah, he was a lying cheat and that's why we got divorced. It was one of the issues, right? And so you want to leave that open so that they know that they can ask you questions and talk to you about things.
[00:16:56] Again, it's a delicate dance. I have a whole podcast [00:17:00] episode on my show, as with Christina McGee about how to walk the line between not throwing your co parent under the bus and not gaslighting your children. It's really hard. It is. It's really hard. So anyway, all that to say, we're going to prepare for the conversation by working with your co parent to craft a narrative that you can both agree on.
[00:17:23] We're going to keep blame out of it. And, if one of the parents is it's your fault. So the kid, this is my favorite thing. The kids need to know the truth. They need to know the truth about what happened. Really? Do they? What is the truth? And who's truth? And how far back does that truth go?
[00:17:40] I had an emotional affair. Okay. You were emotionally abusing me and gaslighting me for the last 10 years. That led me to have an emotional affair. So like, how far back do we go here? So the truth is not, we're not looking for the truth. We are looking for the best way possible to tell our children.
[00:17:59] [00:18:00] We're keeping this about the kids, not about you and your need to not be the bad guy or to throw the other parent under the bus. So you want to be specific about the words, you want to use the words divorce and separation. If you don't use the appropriate words, your kids, they're confused, right?
[00:18:19] You want to give them concrete information.
[00:18:21] Darlene: Yeah. Don't say we're taking time apart. That's going to confuse them.
[00:18:25] Kate: Huh. That's right. Because then they think, okay when the time's over, they're going to get back together. And one of the important things in preparing for the conversation is to make as many decisions as possible before you tell your kids, especially if they're little, if they're older kids can be left with, we haven't sorted all of that out yet.
[00:18:41] They're like what's the parenting time? For older kids, you might say, we wanted to talk to you about that and wanted to make sure that you were a part of that conversation. So we're not sure yet. And, they don't get to choose necessarily, but there's so much that's out of their control in this process that for older kids, we have decided that [00:19:00] we're going to share our parenting time equally.
[00:19:03] Now, do you think you would feel more comfortable with having a week in each house or alternating every few days? That's something that you might want to, some agency, you might want to give a kid, right? But for younger kids, you want to have that worked out? Yeah. So you're going to be with mommy on Mondays and Tuesdays, and you're going to be with daddy on Wednesdays and Thursdays.
[00:19:26] And then Friday, Saturday, Sunday, you're going to be. We're going to alternate. So each parent, you have time with each parent on the weekend. And so if you have a new place to live already, if who's moving out, if you can already have the place, you want to tell them like about two to three weeks before the change is going to happen.
[00:19:46] So it's not so far in advance. That they're just their life is in limbo and they're waiting for things to happen. It's like in six months, daddy and I are going to get a divorce. A kid for a kid, that's like an eternity, right? They [00:20:00] don't know what's happening or when it's happening. So you really want to have these things hammered out in advance so that you can say In about two or three weeks, we're going to get a new house and I actually have the house picked out.
[00:20:11] And if you want to go see it, we can go see it. You may want to have their bedroom all set up and ready to go so that when they go see it, they get a sense of it. It's concrete. When we told our son, I had my new house all picked out. I did have his bedroom all set up and he. Came over here and he just ran circles around this house and the backyard and he was exploring and it made it exciting for him not to be Pollyanna ish about it, but there was, there were things about it that were fun for him.
[00:20:42] He's still, he was still a kid. He was three. Exactly. Yeah. He had his best friend at the time was like, mom, dad. You guys need to get divorced. I want two houses too. Why does Emmett get to have two houses, which [00:21:00] was like, his parents were like, ah, so anyway, what'd you think? You want to give them.
[00:21:07] Like I said, like two to three weeks so that you have all of the information and then they have a little time to process it before the changes start to happen. There's no perfect time to have the conversation. The best advice is to have it, not have it before any big transitions or separations, like before school, before bed, like you don't want to do it before bed.
[00:21:30] Kate: Or like before karate, the ideal time to have it is like on a Friday afternoon after school when you know that the family is going to be together all weekend. Okay. Yeah. If at all possible, if you are doing this amicably, and you can then spend the weekend doing family things together to just drive home the fact that you are like, this is not going to be, there's not gonna be fighting all the time.
[00:21:55] Same. We're still going to be a family. And so you want to [00:22:00] drive that home. You don't have to spend like the whole weekend together. Cause that might be awkward, but right. And you also, that might be confusing. But you just want to make sure that you're available for all the questions. Cause what's, you want to make sure that when you're done with this conversation, you keep checking in, you want to keep checking in afterwards.
[00:22:18] And so which brings us to the conversation. Which, I think we've covered already, but I think one of the things to realize is that kids are going to ask why they're going to ask why, and they're going to keep asking why and every answer you give them about why is not going to be enough because what they're really saying is don't.
[00:22:37] Yeah. There's no answer to the question why that a child will understand and then say, Oh, okay. That makes sense.
[00:22:47] Darlene: Yeah. It's more of it's not why it's, but why does it have to be this way?
[00:22:52] Kate: That's right. Why does it have to be the site and stop? Don't I don't want it, yeah. And you're going to have to say, that this is a grown up [00:23:00] big adult decision.
[00:23:01] And this is why you want to say, we've made this, we've made this decision together as grownups. And, you want to be respectful of each other as you're having this conversation and show up as a team, if at all possible. And look, this is not always possible because Very often you'll get one parent who is, again, like I said, like they need to know the truth or you've got one parent who's going to cry hysterically throughout the entire conversation, making sure that the kids understand that they didn't want this and those sorts of things.
[00:23:34] And these are the times when you may need to have this conversation without the other parent.
[00:23:39] Kate: Because if the other parent is going to be sobbing and sobbing, all of a sudden the children. Have to turn into the parents and now they're taking care of the parent who's hysterical when your job in this conversation is to be there for them.
[00:23:55] Your job is to be the grown up. You can cry. It's perfectly appropriate to cry [00:24:00] because you're sad and say yeah, mommy's sad too. This is really hard. And sometimes we have to make decisions. That are really hard and that make us really sad, but that are still the right thing to do. And you essentially want to have your narrative and then just keep going back to it to just like mommy and daddy have a really hard time getting along.
[00:24:23] And we think that we're going to be better as friends and co parents than we are as husband and wife. And. When they ask all sorts of questions about, but why it's just, honey, dad and I love each other. We're really committed to continuing to be a family. We're just going to be the kind of family that lives in two homes and we both love you so much.
[00:24:45] And the other thing, really to drive home is this is not your fault, right? Because kids are naturally self centered and they will naturally believe. That this is their fault, right? That one [00:25:00] thing that they said, because they got punished last weekend. This is why and they'll make up all sorts of stories in their heads.
[00:25:07] And very often you won't even know about it until years later. So it's really important to keep driving that point home to them. That this is absolutely nothing to do with them and that you are going to be working together to make sure that they know that they're loved and supported by both of you.
[00:25:24] Darlene: Now, what if one parent, you've created this common narrative and you're sticking to it and then all of a sudden one parent, sidetracks, goes off the rails, and doesn't stick to the narrative. How do you recover from that? Or how can one of the parents, co parents recover?
[00:25:42] Kate: I think, one of the things to do is to stop the conversation.
[00:25:46] Turn to your co parent and say, can I see you in the kitchen for a minute,
[00:25:49] Or to just stop and say, Hey, I know this is really hard for both of us and, mom's having a really hard time with this conversation right now. Yeah, [00:26:00] and. Maybe it would be better for us to continue this conversation later or ask the other parent to go in the other room and pull themselves together.
[00:26:08] And this is part of why preparing for this conversation is so important. And, I got to say that now I work with women, so I'm hearing the women's stories and I'm sure that the same is true. It's not that women always and men always. And overwhelmingly women are the ones who are reading books like this, listening to podcasts like this.
[00:26:32] They're doing the research. They're learning. They're gathering the data. They're talking to the experts. And then we bring all the data and all the research that we've done to our male partners and they're like I disagree. And we're like, Based on what, and so the more you can in preparing for this conversation, the more you can enroll your partner in doing some research on their own to [00:27:00] send them the podcast links to send them the books to send them the articles about how to do this.
[00:27:05] There is no shortage of information out there about how best to have these conversations. And in the preparation, I think it's a really important time if you feel like your research and hearing it from you isn't going to do it because obviously there's some level of animosity.
[00:27:25] Then I would say, would you mind if we called a specialist to talk to them about how best to do this and then call someone like Christina McGee or, any other co parenting specialist and ask them, that's what we did. And so we have the professional telling us how to script this out.
[00:27:47] Okay. And then. It's you're not the one telling them how to do it. You've got a professional telling you, and look, if it still goes off the rails, then you can say, that's not how we talked, remember when we [00:28:00] talked to Dr. So and they really recommended that we talk in this way.
[00:28:06] Can we stick to what we're talking about? And hopefully it'll bring them back. Around, but, it's tough, but sometimes you really do need that other voice of authority and with professional expertise to be the one
[00:28:20] Darlene: speaking of that. I had a little note here. I want to ask about therapy for kids around the conversation.
[00:28:25] Yes. I feel like it's important. If families are separating to instill help of a therapist just to process all of that, is there a specific time where parents should introduce that idea to their children in terms of the conversation or the proceedings and all of that? What are your thoughts?
[00:28:46] Kate: Oh, absolutely.
[00:28:47] Part of this is that you want to tell the teachers and the guidance counselors that this is happening because they will probably have some, there will be some behavioral changes at school and you don't want them to be punished and disciplined for them, right? So [00:29:00] you're going to want to make sure that you tell the teachers and you want to tell them like, you don't need to bring it up with them, but just know that if they're having any changes, behavioral changes, this is probably why, and maybe you can deal with it compassionately, right?
[00:29:12] But. I think kids going through divorce should be in therapy no matter what. It is incredibly difficult to find therapists for children right now. And so you may need to just enlist a guidance counselor. A lot of schools, will have in house guidance counselors that the kids can have appointments with.
[00:29:34] After school, certainly in public schools. And so you want to enlist as much help as possible. And the way that you want to present it to your kids is you're having a lot of feelings about this. And it's perfectly normal to have a lot of big feelings right now about what's going on. And you may not feel like you want to talk to mom or dad about these feelings.
[00:29:58] And I'm using really heteronormative [00:30:00] language, but just know it's all for all parenting combinations, whatever, to say if you may not want to talk to me or your other parent about this, because, they may not feel safe talking to you because they may feel like they're aligning with you and they don't want to disappoint dad or whatever.
[00:30:20] And so you really want to make sure that. And say listen, I have a feelings doctor. Talk to him about what a feelings doctor is, right? They're a doctor for your feelings. You know how you go to the pediatrician. We have to go to the pediatrician every year and they do a checkup on your body.
[00:30:34] This is like a checkup for your feelings. Yes. It's like when you have an accident, you go to the doctor to make sure that you're okay. And so this is like that, but for your feelings and you can talk to them and say anything you want. And they can't tell me. Talk about confidentiality and what that means and say, so I want to just provide you this opportunity.
[00:30:57] You don't have to talk. You don't even have to say [00:31:00] anything for little kids. It's we're going to go and you're going to play therapy. Yep. And I don't know how they do it, but they manage to figure out what you're feeling by what you're playing. I think that it's a great point, Darlene. I think kids should absolutely be in therapy.
[00:31:14] I think younger kids, you don't need their buy in.
[00:31:18] Kate: older kids older teenagers, you do need their buy in. But very often, you're also the parent. You don't need a kid's buy in to go to the dentist. You just need them to show up. And, eventually, they usually, with a good therapist, they will usually start utilizing that time.
[00:31:36] Correct. And if they don't, you've still provided it. Yeah. Very good point.
[00:31:41] Darlene: For those that had heard you say, sharing it with the school and everything, someone's listening to this and their knee jerk reaction is I don't want anybody knowing our business. Yes. How would you respond?
[00:31:52] Kate: They're all going to know your business.
[00:31:54] Yes. They're all going to know your business. And it's better that it comes from [00:32:00] you than the gossip mill, so you one or both of you can just, pop into the principal's office and say, it depends on the school, whatever the guidance counselor's office and say, Hey, listen, first of all, you're not alone.
[00:32:11] It happens to a lot of people, they've heard it a million times before, if they've been in education for length of time, they've been through this a million times. So you just say, Hey, listen, just want to let you know, this is what's happening. Johnny's parents were splitting up. It's amicable. We're doing the best that we can.
[00:32:30] We're working together in the best way that we can, just keep an eye on things, whatever. Or you might have to say, listen, we're splitting up. It's gotten really volatile. I'm doing the best that I can, but my co parent or my ex is, I feel is putting the kids in the middle a little bit and it's causing a lot of friction.
[00:32:50] And I just want to make sure you guys are aware of that because I think, they've definitely been acting out at home and if they're acting out at school, I just wanted you guys to [00:33:00] know why. There you go. They just need to know what's going on because your kids start behaving badly and doing stupid stuff or whatever.
[00:33:09] And they're going to get punished. They're going to get detention. They're going to get sent to the principal's office. But if you have a teacher who says to them, Hey, listen, I know you've got a lot going on. And I know this isn't really the way that you normally behave. So what do we need? Do you need to time out?
[00:33:27] Do you need to talk? Do you want to go, talk to someone like let's process these feelings in a constructive and healthy manner.
[00:33:36] Darlene: Then it's one less stressor for your child, one less stressor for you. If everybody, they don't need to know the specifics, but if they know what's going on a little bit enough that they can help support your child and that's right.
[00:33:49] That's what we want. Out of the end of the day, out of all of this, is to make sure that your child feels safe and secure and good. A [00:34:00] hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. Before we go, I did have one other question and it's from a different perspective a little bit. So let's say a child just comes to you one night and says, I hear you and mommy fighting at night.
[00:34:16] Are you getting divorced? Yeah.
[00:34:19] Darlene: And it's just you and your spouse were fighting, but everything is pretty solid. But children worry. And sometimes if they see a friend going through a specific issue, they start to worry that's going to happen to them. Yeah. Yeah. How can parents help a child who comes home with, Worry, anxiety that their parents are going to divorce because their friend, Timmy, Joni or whoever, their best friend's parents are separating.
[00:34:46] How can parents best support children in those kind of worries?
[00:34:49] Kate: If the honest answer is absolutely not, you just have a conversation with the kid about sometimes people fight. And [00:35:00] then, and they make up. And you heard, I'm so sorry that you heard us arguing and we don't ever really want you to hear that.
[00:35:08] But also what you should know is that later on when it was quiet, mom and dad were having a really good talk and we made up and we apologized and that one of the more important parts about arguing, like everybody argues. Good friends argue parents argue one of the more important things about arguing is how you make up and talk to your kid about taking responsibility and I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings and I shouldn't have said that and talk to them honestly about what repair is because one of the most important things in a relationship is not.
[00:35:48] Whether you fight or not, it's how you make repairs. And so this is a valuable lesson, a really valuable lesson in teaching kids about [00:36:00] relationships, and assure them if divorce is so far off the table, you can just say, I can assure you, mom and dad and I, we're not getting divorced and we're really solid and we love each other very much.
[00:36:12] Darlene: Oh my goodness. There is so much that you cover in your book, Kate, and we only just tackled a little bit of one chapter. Before Yeah, right. Before we go, can you share a little bit about what your book actually covers? What The whole kit and caboodle and then where people can go to find it and then also connect with you because I want anybody listening to have the ability to find out where to connect with you and get more information.
[00:36:41] Thank you, Darlene. Thank you so
[00:36:43] Kate: much. So the book is called The D Word. Making the ultimate decision about your marriage. So really that's what it's about. It's about making the decision. Should you stay, should you go there's, information about, should you stay married for your kids? I talk a lot about [00:37:00] various forms of abuse.
[00:37:01] Why are women so unhappy in their marriages today? What does a healthy relationship even look like? And so I answer a lot of the questions that are swirling around people's heads when they're really struggling with this decision and it's available everywhere. Books are sold and I have a page on my website, which is kateanthony.
[00:37:24] com about the book and how to buy the book in some ways that might be a little bit more secret so that you're not. Having this book show up in your shared Amazon order history. So everything I do is on my website, Kate, anthony. com. And I have a podcast. You do the, I know you may have heard of it, Darlene.
[00:37:47] It's called the divorce survival guide podcast. And Darlene has been producing this podcast for me for five years now. I think since I started it, I don't even know. [00:38:00] I could not. Could not do it without you, Darlene, at all. Thank you for being patient with me and for keeping me on track. And yes, so the Divorce Survival Guide podcast, and I'm on Instagram at the Divorce Survival Guide.
[00:38:16] Darlene: Amazing. Kate, thank you so much for taking your time and being with me today on the podcast. And basically reconnecting too. It was really fun.
[00:38:30] Hey, thanks for listening to generational shifts. This podcast is a production of Darling Victoria Digital Media. If you would like to suggest a topic or future guest or leave feedback, head on over to the website at genshifts. com. That's G E N S H I F T S dot com. You can also find episode information, links, resources, and transcripts.
[00:38:55] On the website. And if you'd like to connect with me, you can find me over on [00:39:00] Instagram at dvpodcasts. And finally, as the old internet saying goes, sharing is caring. If you like what you've heard in today's episode, please share it with a friend. That does it for another episode of the podcast. Thanks again for listening.
[00:39:17] Bye.